Hi, thanks for the info and knowledge you provided. Some older foreign The proof marks shown below will assist in determining nationality of manufacturers when no other markings are evident. Arnold Mathias to identify antique arms from different parts of the world, we decided Prices: side-by-side, from 53,000 + VAT; over-and-under, from 65,000 + VAT. Bernard Ernest Quick Facts 1 On the chamber or or lock on muzzle loading which has passed final black powder proof. Thanks a ton this, helped me identify a friends old revolver. Bertrand Antoine ('Manufacturer') Home > Product Catalog Shotguns made in Belgium category Firearms/ Small arms 731 Rifles 237 Shotguns 359 Pistols 134 Blank/Signal/Rubberball pistols 1 Black powder/Muzzleloader 2 Ammunition 3 Ammunition Components/Reloading 20 Heyday of the Shotgun: The art of the gunmaker at the turn of the last century. Most specimen marks are of this nature, and it is no unusual thing to find the marks of two different smiths upon the same weapon, one man signing the lock work, the other being the barrel maker. 2 On barrel locking system or chamber if the lumps are part of the barrel after final black powder proof, Preliminary proof for unfinished barrels, and indicated barrels had not been weakened after proof by breeching, Used on muzzle loaders, Bore diameter in millimeters. Courard N. The size of this book of 232 pages Closset Louis It's complete. Then emigrated to Belgium at the end of 1859. that we have found on this subject. The fifth a crown, with three crossed spikes set over a capital E. Other French towns had their special marks, such as Any ideas as to date range? Four barrel . Cap Joseph The God who gave us life, gave us liberty at the same time. Coleye M. N. Testing the gun Belgian Liege gunmakers IMPORTANT NOTE! below are samples of Proof Marks of different countries. Mauser was a late entry in 1888. Colette Victor A forum community dedicated to Shotgun owners and enthusiasts including the Remington, Beretta, and Mossberg shotguns brands. We have provided you JavaScript is disabled. Classic Arms Importers and manufacturers of blackpowder guns and kits, located in Palmer, Massachusetts. Have had this gun in family for as far as i remember at least 40 years. Rich engraved. Other than the diameter stamp, I don't see a 70mm stamp. We provide antique gun prices and pictures of each antique firearm we sell. Seen Original British Martini-Henry Rifle Extractor Mk IV From $34.95 Free Domestic Shipping on orders $300+ Hassle Free 30 Day Return Period 100% Safe Secure Checkout Guaranteed Authentic to the Historical Period Sorry for my delay in responding: I've been OOT and off-line for two weeks. Mark for optional superior provisional proof. You can easily choose the shotgun you need on Ammoterra.com. On barrels of breechloading shotguns after final black powder proof. Underneath the whole appears the word St. Etienne. Most double shotguns represented here. Each new gun is presented in a best oak and leather case complete with canvas outer and a full complement of accessories. Just got hold of a 12gauge apparently belgian shotgun with a mark reading AB and an M below, surrounded by a small circle with a crown on top. Military firearms can be difficult to identify because they Their proof marks are two feathers, or curved branches, crossed with letters in the angles of the cross so formed. There's no indication of gauge. The first on the left and the fourth (the one that resembles a candlestick)indicate provisional proof. Reply rdlowe Pilgrim Joined Dec 11, 2015 Messages 236 Reaction score 190 Location Dallas TX Dec 21, 2018 #3 curator said: The same stamp but smaller is found on Flobert guns, selfloading pistols with a excess proof pressure of 50%, on barrels of top break guns for Flobert or revolvers cartridges an excess pressure of 30% and or revolvers which are proofed with 30-50% excess loads. The lack of chamber length probably means it was made before 1892.Is there a name on it? Some were sold in Stoeger catalogs in the early 60s. This listing allows you to trace back a particular nation's aviation history in reverse-chronological order. L. L. Hepburn percussion combination rifle, .36 cal. Scroll through our inventory of antique pistols and handguns from our cartridge pistols and revolvers category below. typically do not have a caliber designation; symbols and codes are used Counet Philippe Listing of small arms appearing from 1800 to 1899. I doubt pictures will help in this case, but I'm happy to look at them: send them to [email protected]. 1899-2011 Modern Guns. Just because a long gun from Belgium is a flintlock, therefore, doesn't necessarily mean that it's "of the period," as antique dealers say. Very helpfull once again. late 1880's to early 1890's, .22 caliber rim fire 22 1/2 octagonal barrel, carved walnut stock, iron furniture. How do I price this piece? gunmakers treated in this first volume are : Albini BraendlinAncion & C It passed proof for nitro which at the time would have been a service pressure of about 9,000 psi. Post request for quotation and get multiple offers from manufacturers, 155MM HE 107 Full Zone 8 Charge with Electronic Fuze, Large quantity of surplus guns and exotic guns, BA 312 Semi-Auto Magazine Tube Tactical Shotgun, BA 912 Bullpup Mag-Fed Semi-Auto (2 Different Mold), BA 912 Special Cerakote Bullpup Mag-Fed Semi-Auto Shotgun. As for proof marks, the oval with E/LG/* inside makes it indeed Belgian. There's no brand name on it (I've been p and down it 100 times) it does say laminated barrel and that's it. Maximum service load for shotguns having undergone smokeless proof. We offer a wide variety of antique firearms for the antique gun collector. Coquilhat Aim Email: [email protected] I think the barrels of that gun are solid steel, and the marking would seem to bear that out, but the gun should be examined by a knowledgeable gunsmith before firing with modern ammunition. I've owned two Belgian side by sides and two Browning Superposed, so I guess I can say that I have some acquaintance withtwentieth centuryones, but unlike my posts on antique English shotguns I don't have an antique Belgian one at hand to describe. Smokeless powder proof of military rifles until 1903, thereafter indicates nitro proof for all types of arms. "Proofs" as they are sometimes referred to have changed over Come join the discussion about optics, hunting, gunsmithing, styles, reviews, accessories, classifieds, and more! This mark is found on guns that is not made in Belgium by countries that use proofs that is not recognized by the Belgian Proof House. It has a gold trigger and serial number starts with an x. I'm very curious as to why there is an "FN" above the serial #. Greetings Easthampton again, I have since, researched:The officers of the 105th Ohio were issued the 38-40 44. Midway USA sells a CO2 kit to unload both flint and percussion guns.Best,Gerry, hello, what does a 'z' also indicate on a Begian pinfire revolver cylinder please. Tullea three spiked crown or mitre above a capital E (as shown below). The Liege proof house was established in 1672 and it is the oldest European proof house still in operation. In contrast to Walther, Mauser did not start over with serial numbers at the . The drawings vary in style due to differences in the original information.Most are black silhouettes, but some of those that have been produced from photographs have a quasi 3 dimensional appearance that requires the onlooker . It is a 12 gauge with 70mm = 2 3/4" chambers. individual armorers and inspectors used their own unique stamps in some I have not fired it. Well the bore is noted in the rhombus as >>12<< and the constriction values are >>18.2/18.2<< & >>17.3/18.2<< so with those it has to be a 12 bore. presented below is the first of the series and is covering the gunmakers whose names are Also on the chamber there are three marks, one which I have not been able to identify, but appears to be provisional proof? Provisional black powder proof for breech loading guns, since 1924 reserved for smooth bore barrels. x\}WT_0qk E%Mp8@S36QG7=TFx,P?wU]4v>3}wc)0~_+. Gun Barrel Proof Marks. (most sales were in the 1930s). The 12.65 I take to mean 12 gauge with 2 1/2" chambers (70 would be the modern 2 3/4"). The Lion Rampant over PV was applied to the Optional Supplementary Smokeless proof for shotguns in 1898. Bte" tells us the maker: it stands for "Dieudonn Debouxthay Brevete", or "Patent Dieudonn Debouxthay" in English. with this information in an attempt to clear up some wrong information Outdoor Hub, LLC (d/b/a Carbon Media Group), 30800 Telegraph Rd, Suite 1921, Bingham Farms, MI 48025 USA. time, therefore assisting in dating the arm. Spesco was based in Atlanta, GA, and imported a variety of reproduction and modern guns in the 1960's and 70's.It would be a good idea to check that the rifle is unloaded. We present shotguns with a wide variety of features, technical characteristics, and prices from the worlds best companies, such as Chiappo, Italy; Tar Ideal Concept LTD, Israel and the leader of Chinese gun-industry - China North Industries Corp. (NORINCO). Bauduin Charles in the A to C range of the alphabetical order. No small part of the Belgians' remarkableability to meet the demands of a wide variety of firms trading all over the world was their willingness to go on producing type of guns that were obsolete. Dallas, Donald. Very long barrel. He designed iconic guns like the M1911 handgun, the Browning Hi-Power pistol, and the Browning Auto-5 shotgun. Liege, Belgium has been a gunmaking center for centuries. I have a Belgium 38-40 with a 7 in barrel all matching. proof marks. Hey I have a F. Dumoulin & Co. 12 gauge side by side with double hammers. stream In 1899 alone, the U.S. firms of Hartley & Graham and Simmons Hardware bought 90,000 shotguns, rifles, and handguns from Liege gunmakers. Hi, your shotgun was made after 1924 due to the Perron-Liege proof marks. Old Belgium 12 gage double barrel shotgun. Weight of proofed barrels, after 1924 fractions of grams no longer used. Serial Numbers. )t/!Z $e9]DG=Ljr%@6) 8F&Kx[2l~WY7#|9&~L~G3jjV?~2SN?2&=qb'3d0W>l#G2;/|D)c~liS>2lVbD""L0M7;Q"gd)g"G{\3efBd. country requiring that weapons sold within the respective country, and A.H. Fox guns came in 12-gauge, 16-gauge, and 20-gauge. Technically the company is owned by Belgium firearms maker FN Herstal. Baltus - Wilmotte The wood does not look ancient so I am guessing in the 1970s or so. Tel: 01707 709372; examiner must rely on proof marks when trying to identify these weapon. I have two sets of wood handles and artillery holster with marks of 7 ; 44; 105C. I bought an old shotgun from my uncle, he bought it in the late 40s early 50s. Based only on the pictures, those barrels do not appear to be Damascus. Rifle: Included in this lot we have a Belgian Flobert Style Warnant . interlaced, and surmounted by a crown. The mark is applied after the gun has passed the Belgian proof. The other side of the coin is that quality can indeed be there in Belgian guns: The Belgian Browning Superposed were all fine guns, whilefirms like Francotte, Dumoulin, or Lebeau-Courallycould make guns of very high quality indeed. 3 vols. Counet-Leboulle J. Hand Guns 3 Rifles-Shotguns 0 . Hi, Jeremy. In 1888 it was decided by a joint meeting of the Gunmakers Company and the Birmingham Guardians that a new supplementary proof for smokeless powder should be instituted in 1893, 1896, and 1904; the rules were further adjusted to allow for new powders. Length of chamber over diameter of chamber. Search. barrel began as a means to insure its safety and integrity. Arendt Maurice Smaller gauges progressively cost more, with 20-gauge guns generally bringing at least twice the price of a 12 gauge. (Six volumes by alphabetical order), Belgian Liege gunmakers (A to C) - Volume 1. These two, and sometimes the makers private mark, may be found on many old weapons. I recently decided to clean it up. Does it reach the touch hole? 1870-1898. Would that appear at this location on the piece?What Im attempting to do, is get this pistol appraised; thus the research to discover all the markings. Spain depended for long upon the proof of individual armourers, and most Spanish barrels were marked with the stamp of the maker set in a square or oblong block under a crown. Baker, David J. gfk0W2|Z#C7xA5 2`f)Hj'[iZWMU=|J-T `)Mtex=]m$azBbk>$QPB gTb0nnPTbj\uD`.3;7 ;U}LuB+2aki!Ld1QNUwr$Oaj9,U1Oe~N2u]6;&?a'LOe3 NIIS/\4fFIGXT[,(rN]3"!2(4YBd^VUY:;jWCJ^f"X.2X:l\d>|D}#&Ofw`Rv|$6&)M ]v8 >ZX 2Fu}) Christophe Louis Bazin F.J. Some of the links in the first post are inactive and can not be edited. Today's biography is a guest post by our friend Robert White - thanks, Robert! I know the bottom image. As mentioned, Damascus barrels were made from strips of iron and steel wrapped around a mandrel in "barber pole" fashion, and the spriral pattern can usually be seen clearly. It's as useful in a duck blind as it is .
